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Post by korf on Nov 7, 2005 13:15:12 GMT -5
What it comes down to, is if one of the officers is confused or out of place, we need to stop what we are doing and fix the problem then. Not go on with the process and fix it now, such as what we are doing.
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Post by rhellion on Nov 7, 2005 13:15:49 GMT -5
I never said in open ventrilo "you have no idea how the DKP system works so stop".
I just said "Stop". Twice.. maybe three times, because you did not. And after you did not ask me or bring it up in Officer chat. I believe it was also after you said he could not roll on cenarion boots and that he had negative dkp, which he did not. The system was in place and posted in the officer forum. Again, you said yourself to me when I was on Celeres you did not read the whole thing.
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Post by antimode on Nov 7, 2005 13:16:37 GMT -5
A "you have no idea how the DKP system works so stop.". HeHe just to throw fuel on the fire. Rhellion in the Heat of the Epics you did say it on vent =P no harm done, just bored at work and watching you two is well entertaining at the least.
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Post by rhellion on Nov 7, 2005 13:18:03 GMT -5
Well I apologize for saying it out loud in front of the guild. But as it stands, you did not know because you didnt fully read the thread or understand, you just assumed.
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Post by korf on Nov 7, 2005 13:22:48 GMT -5
Well I apologize for saying it out loud in front of the guild. But as it stands, you did not know because you didnt fully read the thread or understand, you just assumed. Promise not to do it again? /hug MODIFIED: I am glad Rhellion and I are amusing you Antimode. Kiss my ass.
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Post by rhellion on Nov 7, 2005 13:24:32 GMT -5
Yes I fully agree it was out of line in a public domain like the MC channel, I didn't realize that is what I had said and will not do it again. Will you promise to follow the system in place and not make up rules as you see fit (in the middle of a raid)?
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Post by rhellion on Nov 7, 2005 13:32:14 GMT -5
I think we should have 1 person in charge of DKP each run as far as bidding as their MC job. That should be the one first who will be taking bids and screenshots. Everyone will have to know how to do it of course but they won't be the ones doing it unless that person is not present. It should also not be the same people leading the raid.
Basically it comes down to what I thought was going on last night: Korf was leading the raid and I was leading loot. I knew the system because I researched it, posted it, and understood it's mechanics (and thougth we all agreed on it) and what would be done to handle bidding. When in the middle of what I thought would be my routine is interrupted by someone who didn't know the system and was adding rules mid raid, I got defensive. Rightfully so you admited yourself, but I went about it in the wrong way to stop the problem as quickly as possible. We need clearly defined roles.
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Post by korf on Nov 7, 2005 13:51:36 GMT -5
We need to have postions during raids.
Raid Commander- Over sees the entire raid. Putts up the main tanks, tells what healers go to tanks, who to heal first. Main voice and switches commanders. aka mob boss down, loot commander takes over untill all loot is done then power restored to raid commander.
Loot Commander- Does the DKP for Epic and above.( I think we hsould have two people doing this, during a raid to speed up the process and so that people dont feel like they have a biased feeling, aka druid stuff drops and rhellion is loot commander, the other dude can do CENARION(screw you unshaper I can call it what I want) and Rhellion does the non druid stuff.)
Engagement Commander- Tells when DPS to engage.
Trash Mob Commander- Loots and has skinner skin the mobs and sends to the designated bank.
I will only agree to your demand rhellion, if you give me a hug.
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Post by rhellion on Nov 7, 2005 13:53:14 GMT -5
How can anyone percieve a bias if loot is set point values and bids are publicly listed?
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Post by korf on Nov 7, 2005 13:57:27 GMT -5
How can anyone percieve a bias if loot is set point values and bids are publicly listed? Trust me, it just is. It is not a big deal, but we should just have paladins not deal with paladin loot. It is not if it is done right or wrong on how it is displayed. However, when people see who did the loot and get that loot, they always have their eye twitch.
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Post by rhellion on Nov 7, 2005 14:01:25 GMT -5
So is there anything that has to be changed about what I did last night (bidding wise), and what is listed in the first post? If not I would like to handle loot for the next week or two just so everyone can see it done enough to be familiar with it. After that we can rotate someone else in or multiple people. I won'te be winning any loot for atleast that long unless noone else bids because I am already negative dkp.
And again, there is no way to even percieve bias. All dkp records are public, all point values are set, and all bids are announced for just that reason.
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Post by vanith on Nov 7, 2005 14:03:52 GMT -5
For DKP, there's no need to assign more than one person. In fact it's simpler if one person is in charge of DKP and we do it one item at a time. This results in less confusion. If we take things a little slow at first I don't see any problem with that as it allows our members to get used to the DKP system, bidding, and see how it's going to be handled. Taking an extra two minutes to bid one item at a time really isn't hurting us at all. This way people are sure to whisper the right person, and we avoid someone perhaps looting an item too early when bidding has ended for one item but they think they heard it for another, or a myriad of other potential problems. Slow and steady wins the race.
Basically I like the raid spots:
Raid Commander: In Charge of Raid DKP: In charge of bidding Engagement: Should be the main assist telling people when to engage targets, and which targets to engage.
Since Rhellion has kindly set up the DKP and will be updating the DKP site after each raid (correct?) it would make the most sense for him to be in charge of DKP for raids he is on. Antimode seems to be the first choice for calling Engage. And the officers can decide on a raid-to-raid basis who should lead based on the officer's previous experience in that area of MC.
As far as the bias goes, there's no reason to have anyone but the DKP person handle all bidding one item at a time on raids. The DKP is posted plainly for all to see and check, there isn't really any room for bias or argument when each person's ability to get an item is numerically defined for all to see.
The next time we go into MC perhaps we should offer a quick explanation of how bidding works, or be sure all our members have read Rhellion's post on bidding.
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Post by vanith on Nov 7, 2005 14:11:34 GMT -5
A couple other notes, updating and calling for bidding in raid chat allows each member to see who is bidding and, if they are so inclined, check everyone's DKP. That should help eliminate anyone's fear of bias as it becomes public knowledge. Therefore I think it's in the best interest of the guild to keep doing it that way.
Also, any thoughts on whether we want to go back into MC this week? If we do, I think we need to begin posting on the GMOTD what time we plan to go into MC each night at least a day in advance. For now we don't really have an issue with having more than 40 wanting to go, but in the future we're going to have to handle sign ups. Just some thoughts that any good organized guild, like our's is becoming, needs to keep in mind.
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Post by rhellion on Nov 7, 2005 14:12:46 GMT -5
I think we should NOT go tonight because we didn't have the message up a day in advance. I think we should plan on heading back into MC tomorrow to kill Mag and maybe more, and update the GMotD accordingly.
Plus I would like to update the DKP page (i hope it gets up today) so that everyone can see exactly how it works and where they stand... before the next raid iuf possible.
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Post by vanith on Nov 7, 2005 14:24:47 GMT -5
I think it's a very good idea not to go in until the DKP site is up, so everyone knows how much DKP they have, how to access the site, etc. Also this way we don't have to write down who spent what DKP on which item. Again I emphasize that we might need to take this a little slow. I wouldn't say we've rushed to MC, but we got there very quickly, and we got through there last night fairly quickly also.
However, to use a military metaphor, I think we need to consolidate our gains thus far and take that time to prepare to tackle MC in an organized manner rather than haphazardly. Comments?
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