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Post by korf on Nov 7, 2005 15:11:09 GMT -5
I don't think we should go untill the DKP site is up and updated to the current status of everyones DKP.
Also, I think we should not award on time DKP points anymore. I think double DKP is incentive enough to get there on time.
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Post by vanith on Nov 7, 2005 15:16:33 GMT -5
Agreed then on waiting til DKP is up to take another crack at MC. On the same note, do we maybe want to wait until MC resets, and then plan a raid for next week to take down Luci, Mag, and maybe a couple others? In the meantime concentrate on gearing up our fire resists and filling out set pieces?
For example, with a few of our healers going OOM so early in the Luci fight, maybe we need to help these guys grab some better regen gear? Is that what they'd be going for? (Never ever played a healer, so I dunno). Run some ZG in the meantime or even lower tier instances? I know I could afford to get my hands on a little better (purple) tanking gear.
It would also gives us a chance to present MC boss fight strats on these forums, and maybe MC strats in general so everyone is on the same page with our pulls and major fights.
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Post by rhellion on Nov 7, 2005 15:18:00 GMT -5
There needs to be ontime DKP or people will not show up ontime, it's a fact. We should reward people who show up early and prepared, so we don't have to wait for people dicking around in IF. people will WANT to be ontime, in the raid, and ready to go... and the run will always be better off for it. That and it rewards people who show up in the beginning, ontime, and clear the whole instance... as opposed to the people who join the raid before the boss and get full dkp. I suppose you aren't biased, even though you've been late for almost every raid.
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Post by rhellion on Nov 7, 2005 15:20:29 GMT -5
And double DKP is ONLY for first kills, double dkp will never be awarded for Luci again. It also has nothing to do with being on time.
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Post by korf on Nov 7, 2005 17:06:29 GMT -5
They should want to be online ontime and read so we can start to get to our next boss. BOE doesn't go to the highest DKP in the guild but the highest DKP in the raid. So, if they want some extra DKP they will want to be ontime and there during hte trash mob grind. I haven't been late to every raid. I some times need a telephone call to remind me though. (thanks torret). Also, my school> World of Warcraft.
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Post by vanith on Nov 7, 2005 20:18:16 GMT -5
They should want to be online ontime and read so we can start to get to our next boss. BOE doesn't go to the highest DKP in the guild but the highest DKP in the raid. So, if they want some extra DKP they will want to be ontime and there during hte trash mob grind. I haven't been late to every raid. I some times need a telephone call to remind me though. (thanks torret). Also, my school> World of Warcraft. They SHOULD want to be, yes, but they're not. 1 DKP helps to get the point across that we need to be set and ready to go on time. I would say until the guild shows that they can be ready to go on time on a week to week or raid to raid basis we keep on time DKP. It's a question of what motivates them. Yes, they're motivated by DKP from epics, but there's no real benefit to them being first or last there, especially if it's someone we can't raid without. 1 bonus DKP is a motivational factor for them to be on time. Is there really a reason we shouldn't give it out? We're trying to get people eager to go to MC regularly. I don't understand why we would not use a tool like ontime DKP to help with this. Trust me here, motivating people is not done by fear of punishment. We have to make them want to be on time with positive reinforcement rather than criticism! (Can you tell this is part of what I do for a living? Being in charge of 50 employees and 4 mid level managers teaches you a thing or two)
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Post by vanith on Nov 7, 2005 20:19:04 GMT -5
P.S. I'm in grad school, therefore I can be even later than Korf!
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Post by korf on Nov 7, 2005 21:07:43 GMT -5
If we do ontime DKP for scheduled raids, it should be at a significant lesser price then 1, like .5dkp If we do unscheduled raids, such as going to BWL instead of MC or MC, instead of ZG I think a full point for ontime DKP would be...aceptable...
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Post by rhellion on Nov 7, 2005 21:09:09 GMT -5
We already went over this once before and we already agreed to lower it from 2 to 1.
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Post by rhellion on Nov 7, 2005 21:09:28 GMT -5
Again, why are you fighting so hard against this? I don't understand why you don't think this would be healthy for the guild.
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Post by vanith on Nov 7, 2005 21:55:01 GMT -5
If we do ontime DKP for scheduled raids, it should be at a significant lesser price then 1, like .5dkp If we do unscheduled raids, such as going to BWL instead of MC or MC, instead of ZG I think a full point for ontime DKP would be...aceptable... That doesn't make sense, and is self-contradictory. Firstly, if the raid is scheduled in advance, everyone knows when it is, and should be on time. Therefore if they are ontime, they should be rewarded for being responsible enough to get there on time. Secondly, I believe we agreed there would be no more unannounced MC raids, entirely defeating the idea of giving ontime DKP for non-existant unannounced MC raids. Since we're not ready for Onyxia, there obviously would be no unannounced Onyxia raids for DKP. Until we are ready for BWL (months) there's nothing else we'd be accruing DKP for at this time. And honestly this guild is not ready for BWL, even just to poke around. We don't have the gear. Also, awarding ontime DKP for ZG would not be a good idea, since we don't award DKP for drops in ZG. Also consider this, we have a soft cap of 400 DKP. We got 6.6 DKP for last night. 6.6 . . . . . 400. That's A LOT of DKP Where is the harm in rewarding members for doing a good job of being responsible and adult enough to make a committment to be there on time?
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Post by unshaper on Nov 8, 2005 0:38:17 GMT -5
All officers need to be able to do DKP maybe even council members. We have to be able to know what's going on and how to accept bids and such.
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Post by korf on Nov 8, 2005 1:20:24 GMT -5
Inflation. That is the problem.
Also, because you are currently the only one making the rules for the DKP system. It should be made by votes and discussions for every rule made and allow a majority vote win,or if it is close come to a compromise. However, going around the forums posting about how ontime DKP will be rewarded already without us coming to a conclusion on the matter doesn't help.
We need to take our time, come to an conclusion on this stuff TOGETHER and do it right the first time. Because chances are, there will not be second chances when we are dealing with loot later on.
So what it is going to boil down to, is untill I see all officers voicing there opinion in the matter to changing the DKP system in anyway and making rules in the guild. I will try and see it from the exact opposite persons view on how the rule could effect them. And when the majority has agreed on something then it should become inacted.
As officers we should be guiding the guild, not establishing Dominant->submissive relationships with anyone. Including that little rule that was put into the DKP system that says officers reserve the right to take away DKP for any reason. I think thats bull shit. They earned it, it's theres. The only time we should be able to take it away is because we removed you from the guild and theres no point on having them on the list.
If we can change the DKP of a member because of whats wrong, who is going to decide what is wrong? I think alot of us see what is 'wrong' in diffrent ways.
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Post by korf on Nov 8, 2005 2:10:26 GMT -5
On a side note Rhellion, what you have done for the guild is phenominal. You really have pushed us with the loot system and have done a wonderful job in doing it. But policies need to be set by the governing bodies, not the dick-taters. aka, you and me.
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Post by rhellion on Nov 8, 2005 6:30:16 GMT -5
However, going around the forums posting about how ontime DKP will be rewarded already without us coming to a conclusion on the matter doesn't help. If we can change the DKP of a member because of whats wrong, who is going to decide what is wrong? I think alot of us see what is 'wrong' in diffrent ways. We decided it would be 1 point instead of 2. THEN you changed your mind. There was no "going around posting before it was decided". It was decided, then you went back on your decision. That is the second time we've decided something then you went back and changed your mind. So there is no punishment for doing something wrong other than getting kicked from the guild? That's a bit extreme. The officers decide what is wrong, that is why they are officers.
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